Tuesday, April 03, 2007

DeGaynization of Gay Neighborhoods

Interesting article in the St. Pete Times about something you could almost call the DeGaynization of Gay Neighborhoods, sort of like Gentrification. Essentially an area become milquetoast and gays move out.

However, I am not sure that the parallel of Seminole Heights with Castro District would hold true, as there are aspects in Castro District never present here. Mainly no bars. I would suspect Seminole Heights will always maintain a large gay community. Which is good. Adds to our vitality.

"These areas are slowly being altered by an influx of heterosexual couples, the forces of gentrification and growing confidence among gays that they can live pretty much wherever they want nowadays and do not need the security of being in a "gay ghetto."

29 comments:

matey said...

Why the stereotypng of heterosexuals as miquetoast?

Seminole Heights said...

Based on this comment inthe article:

"Gay neighborhoods are becoming "Disneyfied" places, with chain stores and other businesses with little or no overt appeal to gays.

"What makes these neighborhoods gay? Not much," he concluded"

Anonymous said...

Just tell me how to get rid of the white trash family of 8 that lives in the house next door.

IFly said...

Anon@9:24 Perhaps if they're violating some law or code you could report them and work to address those problems which disturb you. If it's merely your sensibilities that are offended perhaps you could relocate to somewhere more suitable to your delicate nature. If you're just being nasty perhaps you should try listing your glass house with a reputable realtor.

Anonymous said...

People tend to live near others with similar social and political views as themselves. Gay men and lesbians are no different.

Couples without children, gay or no, tend to live different lifestyles and value different local services. As Seminole Heights gets more and more children in the gay areas, more of the gay men will move out. (but I am unsure if most lesbians will.) The services, entertainment opportunities, and other amenities gay men enjoy will be replaced with the more lucrative services young families require. (AKA "milquetoast" in the article)

There are other pressures for gay men to move out, like the hateful, unwelcoming politics of Hillsborough County. And there are pressures for gay men to stay, like Mayor Iorio's openly gay-positive position and the 3am closing for bars.

I have already seen a small migration of gay men to St Pete. I think we'll see more of that along with a movement of gay men to trendier areas that are more urban, like downtown and channelside. Plus, new neighborhoods like the Howard/Armenia area just North of 275, are getting attention as younger gay men want their own homes and can no longer afford the Heights.

Who will stay in Seminole Heights? Those unable to take the tax hit for moving. Those who aren't interested in clubs, boutiques, and restaraunts that characterize thriving gay commercial areas. (Of which we pretty much have nil anyway.)

I find the commercial areas of Seminole Heights ugly and unwelcoming. It still looks very much like it did 20 years ago. At some point, if we're still the city's drop off point for used and damaged goods, I may choose to take the tax hit and move. If, after 10 years of effort, the most I can accomplish is getting Family Dollar to clad their building in stucco, it's time to admit defeat and find the eclectic, urban cityscape that appeals to me.

Anonymous said...

milque·toast /ˈmɪlkˌtoʊst/
a very timid, unassertive, spineless person, esp. one who is easily dominated or intimidated: a milquetoast who's afraid to ask for a raise.

That's your opinion of heterosexuals with kids? the ones whom the gays refer to as "breeders".

"I would suspect Seminole Heights will always maintain a large gay community. Which is good. Adds to our vitality." By "vitality" do you mean gaining national attention for S&M murders?

And for anon 1:16
"it's time to admit defeat and find the eclectic, urban cityscape that appeals to me." Great! don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

BREEDERS RULE!

Anonymous said...

quoted from anon. 1:16: "As Seminole Heights gets more and more children in the gay areas, more of the gay men will move out. (but I am unsure if most lesbians will.)" and....

"...there are pressures for gay men to stay, like Mayor Iorio's openly gay-positive position and the 3am closing for bars."

Gee, ya gotta love those kid-hatin', bar hoppin'gays!

Gee...do ya stereotype much??

Anonymous said...

I dunno... did you pass basic reading comprehension? Seems like you didn't.

I linked desireable services with retention of any community of people. If the demographics of an area change and the services change to match, then those that are less "serviced" will move away.

In what way does this stereotype anyone? Where do you get "kid hating" out of that?

Looks to me like you're just itching to fight rather than discuss, otherwise you might have provided some alternative thoughts. Exactly who's stereotyping here, anyway?

Anonymous said...

"As Seminole Heights gets more and more children in the gay areas, more of the gay men will move out. (but I am unsure if most lesbians will.)"

unsure if most lesbians will.?

Hell, they probably side with the breeders in their opinion of gay men.
They at least know the male breeders like women also, so in that they can find something in common. And male breeders on whole find it titillating when seeing two women kissing as opposed to being repulsive as in the case of two men.

Question: do female breeders like to watch two gay men doing it in the same way a male breeder can find enjoyment in watching two lesbians doing it?

Anonymous said...

YEAH! I'm staight and female and I like to see two hot guys kissing! But if they are old and lumpy, not so much.

C'mon face it, SH cannot be compared to most "gay" neighborhoods (such as The Castro or Montrose) because we don't have the number of gay bars and gay-oriented businesses such places do. We have some close by, like Ybor and South Tampa, but not much within our boundaries.

While I think we do have a pretty good sized gay demo here, I think the draw here for them has been more focused on the historic nature of the area, the architecture and the attainability of "fixer-uppers" at a fraction of the cost anywhere else. Any entertainment/lifestyle venues for them is in close proximity, but not right here in the heights.

I'd hate to see gay ppl migrate away from greater SH. They have done much to improve the housing stock, property values and quality of life here.

And, most of my gay friends like children. Some of them even HAVE children! So I don't get the whole reference to gays being turned off by hetero's with kids moving in. That sounds more like something only a homophobe would ASSUME.

Anonymous said...

"breeders"? You can almost cut the jealousy with a knife.

Anonymous said...

I read another interesting article about this last week. Mostly the phenomenon is occurring because of the change in society's attitudes of Gay people. With increasing acceptance in urban environments, Gay people no longer feel the strong need to live in predominantly Gay neighborhoods. The "strength-in-numbers" philosphy has become less necessary. There is also the issue of "Gay" discomfort. There are many Gay people that feel very comfortable living in mostly Gay areas. When the neighborhood becomes renewed and gentrified by the influx of Gay property owners, the general "straight" community then becomes more comfortable with the area. As the area then becomes less "Gay", the Gay people move on to gentrify somewhere else. It has happened everywhere. It happened in Ft. Lauderdale, South Beach, Greenwich Village, Castro etc. Now you can see it to a lesser degree here in Tampa. Years ago Hyde Park was to Gays as Seminole Heights is now. Hyde Park become overrun and overpriced and....we moved on. What downtrodden area is next on our list?? You'll just have to wait and see!!

Anonymous said...

This is Florida. Too many neighborhoods in suburbia aren't ready for or accepting of a gay influx. Most in the GLBT community are going to stick to known gayborhoods in the bay area. Carrollwood, Brandon, Lutz I don't think so. Nothing but chain resturants and chain stores.

Anonymous said...

This is Florida. Too many neighborhoods in suburbia aren't ready for or accepting of a gay influx. Most in the GLBT community are going to stick to known gayborhoods in the bay area. Carrollwood, Brandon, Lutz I don't think so. Nothing but chain resturants and chain stores.

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:51 ... let me know what downtrodden area you're going to "over take" next! I want to buy in there too. No doubt you'll turn it into the next "jewel"!!!

Anonymous said...

Typically, Gays and Lesbians are perfectionists, always striving for better, and upward mobility. They are always trying to improve on perfection and make things better. For the old timers, you may remember the first wave of Gay Rehabbers that blew threw SESH and revitalized "McFairy" as it was affectionately called. The majority of neighbors were gay, beautified almost the entire street and all sold within a matter of months. At the time, you could buy almost all of the homes for $119-129K. The majority cashed out, made 10's of thousands of dollars and moved to South Tampa. Then came the next wave who took it to a whole new level and took the values to over $200. Now we have the new wave of gays and "DINKs" (Dual Incomes, No Kids) and we are now seeing more and more compounds now in the hood. ie, the Home Tour Home with the two level deck and spectacular kitchen, the home tour mega compound at 13th and McBerry (home tour year before last) and the HGTV Home Tour mini mansion compound that light up the entire block at night. Look at any of these and a whole lot more, each week, we get more homes like this. Now we have a wave of homes that have to value over $400 each. As we see this trend continue, I think you will see more people stay for good as this is quickly becoming "the neighborhood to live in"

You can see this trend in many simple day-to-day sightings i.e., notice the choices of food at the neighborhood Publix, Sushi, organic food, etc. Look at the number of luxury cars, Lexus, Mercedes, Porsche, etc....and of course the crowned jewel Starbucks.

Yes neighbors, we have arrived. I am thrilled to have my grandchildren come for summer visits, walk the streets where their parents grew up and enjoy the beauty, AND DIVERSITY, in the neighborhood I call HOME!

Anonymous said...

Ah, but you didn't continue describing the cycle. :-) The DINKs move in and then? A large number of the DINKS, who have a similar lifestyle to gay men at first, have kids. Then they aren't DINKs any more but brand new parents ushering in a new phase for the neighborhood. Nothing wrong with that at all, of course, and few gay men care all that much about it directly. A fine neighborhood with kids attracts more families with children because of the playmates and evidence that it's a safe area for children. At this point, Seminole Heights will be just like Hyde Park is now. It will be a pricey, desireable neighborhood popular with middle/upper-middle families with a few gay men sprinkled in the mix, but far less than years past.

Children aren't the reason gay men leave, but they are the bellwether.

Gay men like living near other gay men, in general. As the neighborhood continues on the path of gentrification, the percentage of gay men will slowly decrease until a certain threshhold is met and a majority of those remaining will leave shortly after. Some will always stay for reasons adequately described in posts above.

And the "next big place" is Just North of I-275 around the river and near Howard/Armenia. It's happening already. The first wave is there and chatting up in the bars about how they bought a gem of a bungalow and are tearing it apart. Two or three party-seasons from now those homes will be filled with gay men drinking whatever is trendy at the time, mulling over the idea of moving into an affordable area and making it their own. The cycle begins again. (Maybe we can get Elton John to write a ballad.)

Anonymous said...

How do these guys do it. Their homes are nothing short of spectacular if not over the top! One has a bus sitting behind thier compound wall, the other has god only know what behing their compound wall. We have tried to sneek peaks everytime we walk the pups by, it lights up more than the white house has more palms than an oasis, yet we cant get a glimpse. Then the house at 12th and McBerry with the 2 lux cars, new paved drive and beautiful lawn. How can these folks keep going. At some point one would think they would stop. All I can say is keep it up. Rise the property values for the rest of us. What do these homes appraise for? Are their values increasing or are these neighbors anticipating a rise down the road?

Anonymous said...

How do these guys do it. Their homes are nothing short of spectacular if not over the top! One has a bus sitting behind thier compound wall, the other has god only know what behing their compound wall. We have tried to sneek peaks everytime we walk the pups by, it lights up more than the white house has more palms than an oasis, yet we cant get a glimpse. Then the house at 12th and McBerry with the 2 lux cars, new paved drive and beautiful lawn. How can these folks keep going. At some point one would think they would stop. All I can say is keep it up. Rise the property values for the rest of us. What do these homes appraise for? Are their values increasing or are these neighbors anticipating a rise down the road?

Anonymous said...

Is that bus illegally parked there? I sure would like to ask code about it. Can you imagine what the unnecessary water consumption must be at that place?

Anonymous said...

This thread is gay

Anonymous said...

Really? What do you think it might appraise for?


(P.S.: Why is a big gay house a "compound"?! )

Anonymous said...

A "Compound"?
Isn't that what David Koresh and his people lived in?

Anonymous said...

I have seen the compounds "a walled fortress" of sheer beauty. They are as beautiful as you would expect. Don't Hate, Love them for bettering the neighborhood and love them for increasing YOUR property value!

Anonymous said...

Sounds like the owners of one of these "compounds" is posting anonymously as his own cheerleader. The clues are the over-the-top descriptions and the mention of property values. sounds like a couple of homo realtors to me.

Anonymous said...

Anon 11:22. "Gays and Lesbians are perfectionists". That should be that Gays are perfectionists. The Lesbians are NOT perfectionists.

Anonymous said...

Heh... he said "homo". That's funny.

Did anyone else see the anti-gay protester holding up the Jesus sign this morning on Nebraska and Hillsborough?

I recognize him as one of those that protest at the International Gay and Lesbian Film Festival every year.

Never thought I'd see people picketing me in my own neighborhood. I guess Seminole Heights isn't as safe as I thought it was.

"...sounds like a couple of homo realtors to me." --you that guy?

Sapiens said...

As a straight male, I thought he was referring to me, as a homo sapiens

Anonymous said...

riiiiiight. That's a good one.